Curse

Powerful White Man · Apr 15, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Do that and you'll have hordes upon hordes of PvEers complaining, mainly to you for coming up with such an extreme idea. Don't change anything, if you don't like it, don't use it, if you must use it, use it and don't like it. Just stop QQ'ing about such stupid things.

And I would bottle their tears and bathe in them as a fountain of youth. I would be laughing like crazy if I ended up with 100 different QQ messages over night.

Toxage · Apr 15, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

This suggestion is stupid.

The majority of Ursan head rolling PvE morons have already achieved their monuments via Ursan. Your suggestion would only prevent the current population from playing Ursan, which would have negative affects across the board. Let's be honest not many people are currently playing Guild Wars due to lack of new content. Nerfing Usan would decrease the population, which could cause inflation, make groups even harder to form and Guild Wars even more of a solo game.

Why do you care how other people play the game? Who are you that you have the authority to determine how other people should play Guild Wars? Do you think you are some kind of higher being?

Your playing a video game. There is NO skill involved in Guild Wars PvE. Unless you count staying in range of monks and not over-extending skill, but anyone with the intelligence of monkey can do that.

If consumables were nerfed then we would have even more inflation then we due now due to the loss of a gold sink.

You fail to understand basic economics. Your suggestion would have a negative impact on the game.

Good Day Sir.

capblye · Apr 15, 2008, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Thanks for the compliements. Before I posted the OP I took a long look to see if it was e-peen etc, and I can honestly say it was'nt.

I want people to have fun, I want the whoosh bang pve skils give you. I love playing cop sometimes. so it's not a i'm so leet I dont want anyone else to follow me kinda thing. I just would not have posted if it was,

I did'nt want to spew out a whole load of in game credentials, but it does help people understand that it's not about wanting to deny people fun or their shiny statues.

It's just not. If it's lead people to think this of me, then i'm sorry for my poor articulation of things. I've played the majority of my time making sure unwanted professions can get a boost, showing things can be done with a mesmer, or a Rit or an assasin for example.

What it is, is that I hate to see people excluded from things. I've lost count we've helped out people who have not been able to get teams because they were the wrong profession or had the wrong title. I hate it, just hate it.

And yet what we are seeing here is a worse exclusion, one based on grind, not necssarily skill, of how much cash you have rather than how you play.

Any change, that breaks these exclusions down forever is fine by me

I must apologise for misunderstanding the intent of the OP ... i read it as an "e-peen" post, but i see by the above it was not intended that way.
So for that, i apologise at my aggressive reply.

With that said, i still do not agree.
Primarily because with any rewarding like the ones you and others propose, you are exactly promoting the thing you dislike ... segregation.
By rewarding players for running with no pve skills and no cons, you will again be creating an enviroment where a select group of players will group together and exclude others.
Things will simply return to what they were with the holy trinity, or something very close to it, and will not allow off classes such as sins, mesmers etc to join.
The basic underlying problem is not the skills or the AI or anything in game really.
The problem is the players, and will always be the players.
I had a professor once who used to love to say, "Society as a whole would be MUCH better off without people."

While some (myself included) enjoy taking time to develope or test builds that others create, sadly, the larger percentage cannot be bothered.

Now here's the rub ... Is Anet in business to satisfy the players that enjoy taking their time in every facet of the game?
Or is the larger game market geared toward hit n run style games?
Where does the money lie?

So to hope that they stay altruistic to the original design and intent of the game, would probably result in their loss of mass market appeal.

The simplest solution is the same answer as the source of the problem ...
it lies in the players.

If forums such as this can help promote grouping of players that adhere to a different style of play, then organizing these players will be much easier.
What a solution such as this requires is dedication and a spearhead to take the lead on such a venture.
If a group of core players that feel strongly about the style of play were to join together and use their time to organize the players who wish to experience the game in its "traditional" form, i think it would resolve many of the issues raised by cookie cutter builds, overpowered PVE skills and consumables.

Better yet, use the "Guild" in guild wars, and use the multitude of forums surrounding GW as a Billboard to advertise it. Call out to players that dont want to use Ursan to run FoW. Give them a place to turn.

I am sure a strong concerted effort to band players together that refuse to allow PVE skill bars in their guild and pugs would soon become popular.

Yes, you are basically doing the same thing the Ursan and Trinity Pugs are doing, but at least it will resolve the issues many seem to face that do not want to use these classes or skills.

As i said .. the solution lies within the players, not Anet.
Petitioning them over and over will not resolve the issues ... only compound the problem.
The old saying, "you cant make all of the people happy all of the time" is basically the position they face.
Who should they appeal to?
1,000 core players who havent spent any real money on GW in years or 10,000 new players who havent purchased all of the games yet?

Toxage · Apr 15, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

And yet what we are seeing here is a worse exclusion, one based on grind, not necssarily skill, of how much cash you have rather than how you play.

Any change, that breaks these exclusions down forever is fine by me

What are you smoking? No seriously, my drug dealer doesn't sell me drugs those powerful....

Consumables aren't meant to be used in every instance. If you need consumables for every instance you should probably go learn your ABCs.

Consumables are designed to be a cushion for bad players to help them do Hard Mode and feel special inside. And to be a gold sink.

Consumables are also cheap. I don't know where your getting the how much cash you have.... It has been said one million times before buy low sell high. Or if spamming trade it difficult for you, then you can become a mindless farming zombie. Or if pressing keys is difficult for you, go spend Mommie's money and support some Chinese family.

Fear Me! · Apr 15, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

What it is, is that I hate to see people excluded from things. I've lost count we've helped out people who have not been able to get teams because they were the wrong profession or had the wrong title. I hate it, just hate it.

And yet what we are seeing here is a worse exclusion, one based on grind, not necssarily skill, of how much cash you have rather than how you play.

Any change, that breaks these exclusions down forever is fine by me

I understand your point, there was no class which suffered exclusivity more than the mesmer. In addition, there are the many instances where normal players who don't even have ursan are denied party entry. This phenomena can be traced all to the beginnings of Prophecies where party entry meant having an elite at a certain area or mission. The only refuge now for players who want to play the game for a fun challenge, is to develop a friend's list of open-minded people. Don't for instance, befriend someone who works two blue collar jobs. In that case, I don't blame them for resorting to using only ursan as their means of playing and thus enjoying the game. But I understand your dislike of exclusivity, I myself suffered it when playing my mesmer and assassin, and have also helped people of those classes through missions.

TheRaven · Apr 15, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

What are you smoking? No seriously, my drug dealer doesn't sell me drugs those powerful....

Consumables aren't meant to be used in every instance. If you need consumables for every instance you should probably go learn your ABCs.

Consumables are designed to be a cushion for bad players to help them do Hard Mode and feel special inside. And to be a gold sink.

I guess you just want to troll and didn't bother reading or understanding the posts. We don't want to use consumables but with the new Ursan builds in order to find a pug in any elite area you are told you must bring a conset.

Personally I don't want to bring and use a con set. I don't need them to complete the areas. Oh my, that might actually add a half hour to our completion time. So since I refuse to use one for fow I can't find a pug.

Con sets are expensive. I could buy one in town for 7k or craft them myself for about 6k if I bought all the mats from the trader or I could spend time farming the mats. It's a waste of money imo.

Angelina Collins · Apr 15, 2008, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

I don't mind so much my ideas being called bad, I've had some really bad ones in my time. but I'm sorry Huh?

1. You accuse me of using hacks - I was one of the first people to report a number of exploits, including the Mallyx exploit. Never EVER used one. I kick people from my guild who do, if I went ahead and used them not only would I be an exploiter but a shameless hypocrite.
2. Show me one post I have ever made that frowned upon someone of 'lesser ability'
3. Show me once slice of evidence I have been greedy, quite the opposite in fact. Let me give you some examples

It was a figure of speech, but the very idea on punishing someone simply because they are using PvE only skills or comsumables is ignorant thing to do.

You may not like the current system or how people play the game, but I should not have to suffer because of your dislike.

maybe you are bitter because of ursans blessing, but I don't use that skill, yet I do use other PvE only skills, so why should I be punished? Why should I be punished if I use a consumable the benifits the entire party?

I am sure what you have done in the past was noble, but to introduce an idea like this one is honorless.

Snow Bunny · Apr 15, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

This suggestion is stupid.

If consumables were nerfed then we would have even more inflation then we due now due to the loss of a gold sink.

You fail to understand basic economics. Your suggestion would have a negative impact on the game.

Good Day Sir.

Oh goodness. If you're going to troll, troll eloquently and skillfully. Don't be a moron; have some background in your arguments before you spout fallacies.

Ursan speeds up the rate at which high-end areas can be run, aye? Why do people run high-end missions; so that they can possibly attain higher-end items. The 'hot item' changes with time, but the fact that there will always be items of greater value remains the same.

With Ursan, the availability of such items grows greatly, due to the absolute drop in time required to attain these items. Thus, the market is flooded with them.

Consumables barely make a dent in the profits reaped by using them in such high-end areas. Ursan and Consumables in fact contribute to the lack of high-end items by making them less valuable by pure availability on the general market. Thus, the stripping of consumables would in fact, NOT contribute to any sort of inflation.

As it were, if you read any of this, Toxage, you're wrong.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 15, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22

k guys we're gonna nerf consumables, hope you didn't stock up on them in order to play the market.

I.E.

snow bunny, you're wrong.

RavagerOfDreams · Apr 15, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

k guys we're gonna nerf consumables, hope you didn't stock up on them in order to play the market.

I.E.

snow bunny, you're wrong.

exactly

the people who stocked up on em would be out big time cash

Snow Bunny · Apr 15, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

k guys we're gonna nerf consumables, hope you didn't stock up on them in order to play the market.

I.E.

snow bunny, you're wrong.

Do you know how many you'd have to stock up on in order to play the market?
Study consumer-trend economics please.

Shanaeri Rynale · Apr 15, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelina Collins

It was a figure of speech, but the very idea on punishing someone simply because they are using PvE only skills or comsumables is ignorant thing to do.

You may not like the current system or how people play the game, but I should not have to suffer because of your dislike.

maybe you are bitter because of ursans blessing, but I don't use that skill, yet I do use other PvE only skills, so why should I be punished? Why should I be punished if I use a consumable the benifits the entire party?

I am sure what you have done in the past was noble, but to introduce an idea like this one is honorless.

Punished how? you could argue you are being punished for playing in normal mode because in hard mode the drops are better, you get tomes, double gem drops, lockpicks and XP. You are being rewarded for a greater challenge not punished.

Running no cons and pve skills is a greater challenge, so why not reward that also? All the suggestion was, was to extend the principles introduced in hard mode. Make the game harder, get better rewards. Nothing more, nothing less. I fail to see any lack of honor in this?

Honor is seeing the average player who has little time to farm, whatever money they make on a run is used up to pay for the next one, Of being unable to get a team, or being pressured into a play style that forces him to pay to play. Honor is saying this is wrong and having the guts to stand up and say it. Honor is also admitting you were wrong to judge someone and not then pretend it was something else.

I don't hate Ursan, I hate the exclusion, and negative impact it and it's ilk are causing. Thats a subtle difference.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 15, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Lol, you're still wrong. I can play the market simply by buying 5 at 7k/ea and selling in a diff timezone for 8k.

Stop trying.

Snow Bunny · Apr 15, 2008, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Was wondering if you noticed the spelling error.

'Stop trying'. You didn't actually argue anything except that it'd suck for people trying to make a profit on trading consumables. You ignored the primary argument because you can't prove otherwise. Consumables, combined with ursan, undoubtedly increase the availability of high-end items and thus continually contribute to the depreciation of said items.

i.e. ups, you're wrong

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 15, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Yeah I'm typing here between GvGs, please excuse the error, sir.

I came into the discussion only on the issue of removing, i.e. nerfing, them from the game, pointing out a key problem. I'm yet to hear a valid response.

-rightuos- · Apr 15, 2008, 06:25 AM // 06:25

There is a reason I think people overlook here. All one needs to notice is Anet's joke on April fools in the update notes. They know people abuse Ursan. They don't care either. They wont ever fix it nor change how consumables work either. One might ask why? It sells EotN expansions to people. They are not in this to make you feel good inside. They have your money already. Its not like they lose a subscription if you quit.

I too had the fun in trying to find a group to get my armbrace from DoA. I dont have a high Norn rank so that was out for me. Luckily I have a guild with people I play with on a daily basis. I use consumables as well to vanquish mainly because theres a lack of interest in most people I know to do the same and the hench just dont quite cut it in some areas.

A11Eur0 · Apr 15, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

It's not just ursan. SY and TNTF are just as broken, only that people don't know what they can do. Seed of life, in spite of the nerf is also too good not to be on most monks bars. Consumables just break the game full stop.

How do cons break the game? You have to pay for them. They don't come cheap. Skill points, expensive materials, etc.

If you do not enjoy being in an ursan group, make a balanced team of your own. Join a guild of likeminded individuals who will clear these areas without ursan. SY and TNTF, seed of life...they're not broken either. SY! doesn't affect the character using it. Thus, even if they're d-slash spamming it, the warrior or para using it won't get the armor boost, thus will pull aggro and die first, stopping the SY! chain. TNTF...huge energy cost. Works for paras with a bit into leadership, but still pretty expensive for a para shout. Seed of life...doesn't last long AT ALL. It's a clinch thing and only works if one character is being spiked, or if you have a bonder.

the_jos · Apr 15, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

SY and TNTF, seed of life...they're not broken either. SY! doesn't affect the character using it. Thus, even if they're d-slash spamming it, the warrior or para using it won't get the armor boost, thus will pull aggro and die first, stopping the SY! chain. TNTF...huge energy cost. Works for paras with a bit into leadership, but still pretty expensive for a para shout. Seed of life...doesn't last long AT ALL. It's a clinch thing and only works if one character is being spiked, or if you have a bonder.

Almost seems you never played a SY/TNtF para.
I have no problems with energy at all except when under e-denial.
Seed of Life does not last long, true.
But it's an awesome skill when used right.
And that's not when a character is being spiked and also not the best when using a bonder.

KennyC · Apr 15, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

The bottom line is that "Elite Areas" are supposed to be Elite. And by Elite I mean difficult, hard to finish, a struggle and should leave you with a feeling of achievement.

With Ursan and consumables they are no longer Elite, they are transformed to Very Easy areas/missions at the click of a button.

I know it's fun to URSANCON rampage through elite missions and get your reward at the end but it defeats the object of having Elite Areas or Hard Mode entirely. While I don't fully agree with the OP's suggestion, I do agree that something needs to be done to put a stop to this abuse of the Elite Areas and URSANCON Vanquish teams.

DivineEnvoy · Apr 15, 2008, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyC

The bottom line is that "Elite Areas" are supposed to be Elite. And by Elite I mean difficult, hard to finish, a struggle and should leave you with a feeling of achievement.

With Ursan and consumables they are no longer Elite, they are transformed to Very Easy areas/missions at the click of a button.

I know it's fun to URSANCON rampage through elite missions and get your reward at the end but it defeats the object of having Elite Areas or Hard Mode entirely. While I don't fully agree with the OP's suggestion, I do agree that something needs to be done to put a stop to this abuse of the Elite Areas and URSANCON Vanquish teams.

Ursanways do require a good portion of knowledge into the game; for example, Ursanways require the team to target the monk first as well as not to aggro so much knowing that Ursanways aren't god mode. Of course, when team members are low on health points or out of Ursan due to e-drain, they'll need to kite away from the mob to be healed. Nevertheless, I guess that isn't enough for you.

However, in comparison, cookie-cutter builds require no knowledge into the game. What we'll have is an Obisdian tank aggroing everything on the map, then a bunch of Elementalists just randomly nuke the mobs. First of all, the idea to allow one to aggro everything on the map corrupts players. Do you know how many times I came across players who would just do that because they think they are the tank? Secondly, random nukes is clearly a bad playing habit; as we all know, it is probably the most efficient to kill the monk or what is the most threatening to the team first, but what we have here is a corrupted idea in which players should just randomly target their foes. Lastly, normally when the tank breaks the aggro, the backline spell casters should be able to kite away to avoid being killed; by sitting back nearly always in this kind of build, do you know how many of them don't even know that they can run away if the tank dies?

Ursanways may seem to be an easy button for you, but face it, it does help players learn their basic fundamentals. However, in contrast, cookie-cutter builds will corrupt people's basic fundamentals. To make the situation worse, cookie-cutter builds dominated every areas into the game previously, and it still dominates a selective few areas even with the existence of Ursan. My point is, if we go by your logic into nerfing Ursan, then we should also nerf cookie-cutter builds. Don't you agree?